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A Defense Technology Blog
Israel Says $100 Million Per F-35 Is Enough

In trying to put Joint Strike Fighter export issues into perspective, an Israeli Air Force general says price is the biggest issue, industrial participation by home industries is second and only in third place is the confrontation about replacing U.S. electronic warfare systems with local products.

So far, Elbit has been subcontracted to provide a helmet mounted cueing systems that replaced the standard head up display. And Elta is expected to provide an active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar without U.S. complaint. So there is some progress on Israeli industrial participation with more expected.

But the pricetag of “more than $100 million” for each stealthy strike aircraft is seen as a show-stopper. In fact, if it hadn’t been for the sale of SA-22s to Syria and SA-20s to Iran, the IAF would have delayed purchase of the JSF for several years until the price went down.

The “more than” appears to be a substantial amount because the Israeli general says that if the price from the Pentagon were $100 million each, the deal would already be signed. The Israelis want an initial buy of 25-50 aircraft with grow of the fleet expected to reach 75 or more.

Nailing down the price of an F-35 is a complicated task. One problem is that the earlier you buy them, the more they cost and production isn’t scheduled to end until 2035.

“There is no such thing as what JSF costs,” says U.S. Air Force Maj. Gen. Charles Davis, the F-35 program executive official. “If you give me a year [of purchase], a variant [of the aircraft] and a number [in the buy] I can give you a ball park [price].”

There are a few bench marks. The first, low-rate production lot of two F-35As cost about $200 million each, Davis says. The second lot of six aircraft cost about $160 million (2008 dollars without the engines) each. And by 2014, at the end of LRIP, F-35As are predicted to cost $70-75 million (in 2014 dollars) each while Short Takeoff and Vertical Landing (STOVL)variants will be coming in at $80-85 million, he says.

Foreign customers are not going to get gouged in the pricing unless they want some thing extra, he says. For example, the Royal Air Force will pay the same for their F-35B Short Takeoff and Vertical Landing aircraft that the U.S. Marine Corps does.

But the cost to any particular customer will be hard to predict. The vagaries, as explained by Davis, are the difference between the year of purchase, the exchange rate, and flyaway cost versus the cost when training, spares and long-term sustainment and other issues that vary over time are added to the total.

Tags: F-35exportIsraelar99
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Horde wrote:
David,

Nothing like sending a ferret down the rabbit hole.

There is no such thing as what JSF costs, says U.S. Air Force Maj. Gen. Charles Davis, the F-35 program executive official. If you give me a year [of purchase], a variant [of the aircraft] and a number [in the buy] I can give you a ball park [price].

Surely something a bit more precise than "a ball park" should be able to be provided, given the billions upon billions that have so far been spent on this program - not to mention the rather high executive salaries that have been paid out, both in Industry and the Pentagon.

Since Maj. Gen. Charles Davis has kindly offered, maybe you could ask him for the unit procurement price of the JSF against the following criteria:

1. Year = 2014
2. Variant = F-35A CTOL JSF, Block 3 Configuration
(as defined in Dec 2002)
3. Number of Units = 100, buy spread over the period 2014 to 2018
4. Also, how much to upgrade to Block 4 Configuration
(again, as defined in Dec 2002)

These questions have been put to proponents of the JSF Program before, including the good General as well as Tom Burbage of LMT, but, alas, no answers have, so far, been forthcoming.

Maybe you could have better luck.
2/25/2009 8:46 PM CST
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Horde wrote:
...Oops!

To remove one of the "vagaries" (a.k.a. 'rabbit holes') to which Maj. Gen. Charles Davis refers, could we please have these cost figures in 2014 US Dollars as may be calculated by using the US Treasury economic inflation (or, maybe, deflation)factors.

Nothing like knowing what you are going to have to pay for what you are thinking of buying at the time you plan to buy.

Also, you might ask the good General if there are any risk margins included in the cost figures and, if not, what such margins he believes should be included and for what, in keeping with prudent program risk management (...since he is the JSF Program Manager, up until April or earlier this year)?

2/25/2009 9:03 PM CST
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viperfan wrote:
Sometimes it's fun to read old articles on the web like I just did. One from 2001... USN was confident of getting F-35 in service by 2008 at a unit cost of $28 million (94 price level) while the Marines was looking at a whopping $38m.

($28m 1994 dollars is $40m in 2008 dollars btw)
2/25/2009 9:49 PM CST
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FRED wrote:
The IDF wanting to pay no more than $100M per F35? In their dreams. The price will go to at least $140-150M by the time the dust settles. LM are behind the curveball, timewise, at the moment which has added $4B to the programme cost (as written elsewhere).Last week I read that although the Dutch have said they'll be buying 85 F35's they have'nt signed anything yet and as such have 'left the door open' to consider the Gripen. If the IDF have budgeted $100M per aircraft they'd be better off buying 2 Super Hornet E/F's. The SA-22's and Sa-20's are not too bothered about 'stealth'.
2/25/2009 11:00 PM CST
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ELP wrote:
Sure is a great way to launder U.S. taxpayer foreign military aid to the tune of billions.
2/25/2009 11:52 PM CST
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Corvan wrote:
ELP, if it wasn't coming back it wouldn't be given in the first place.

Regarding $100M/JSF I'd say they're dreaming, but it is Israel so one never knows.
2/26/2009 8:50 AM CST
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ELP wrote:
Tell it to AIPAC.
2/26/2009 4:21 PM CST
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Obamanite wrote:
Sure, ELP, and the U.S. has gotten NOTHING out of its "special" relationship with Israel, right? Nothing but fleeced U.S. taxpayers, Jonathan Pollard and ticked-off Arabs and Palestinians, right? Hey, perhaps I should introduce you to my good friend the Bishop Richard Williamson. You two should get together and have tea with Ahmadinejad...
2/26/2009 6:37 PM CST
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Solomon wrote:
without all the hyperbole, this is a tough story to digest. reading between the lines leads to a couple of different conclusions for me. but in a nutshell are the Israeli's driving a hard bargin in public in order to obtain some type concession...or are they actually spooked by a weapon system they've already defeated (at least pieces of it) and does that mean that an uprated almost Russian "quality" design is being sold in the middle east?
2/27/2009 12:20 AM CST
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ELP wrote:
As usual Obamamint your leaps of illogic are amusing.

So unless you support Israel full stop, you are automatically a lover of Imadinnerjacket?

This ends the entertainment portion of this thread.
2/27/2009 2:41 PM CST
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