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A Defense Technology Blog
F-22 is still the champ
  Regardless of the vote in the Senate, “ The F-22 funding termination this week doesn't change a thing [about the tactical advantages offered by the stealth fighter’s advanced systems] and I think history will bear out the F-22 advocates' position when all the dust settles,” a senior U.S. Air Force intelligence officer tells Aviation Week.  “ The F-35 [Joint Strike Fighter] is not an F-22 by a long shot,” he says.  “There's no way it's going to penetrate Chinese Air Defenses if there's ever a clash.”

   The intelligence official was referring to the fact that penetrating the latest surface to air missile defenses is something only the F-22 can do. China and Russia have variants of the the S-300/400 family that includes the SA-20 which is being sold in Asia and the Middle East. The F-22 can stay ahead of SA-20 because it it flies about a half-mach faster, two-miles higher and has a smaller Radar Cross Section than the F-35.

  
Tags: F-22F-35intelligenceChineseairdefenses.ar99
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Solomon wrote:
It's high time that the Air Force officer quoted in this story turns to and gets to work solving whatever problem that he envisions with the force that he has to work with and solves the problem. This fixation on the F-22 being the only weapon system in the US inventory capable of dealing with advanced Russian anti air missiles is wearing thin. No weapon, except for the F-22, is touted as being able to fight alone, and win alone. Once again, I hope that the cancellation of this fighter will allow for the Air Force to get its doctrinal house in order. Cruise missiles, B-2 bombers, JDAM's, SDB's all those weapons and more are capable of dealing with the Russian triple digit sam threat and that doesn't even include electronic attack and black programs that I'm sure exist in case of the big one.

What prompted this statement by him?
7/23/2009 4:11 PM CDT
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John wrote:
I thought we had Growler and F-35 with electronic attack ability? Or you could just send in a whole bunch of drones to swamp their air defenses, taking them out.
7/23/2009 4:36 PM CDT
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viperfan wrote:
Things can always get done. But some people prefer not be the subject of Home-On-Jam missiles.

What drones? The ones that fly 120 kts and launch gbu-12's ?
7/23/2009 4:41 PM CDT
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ELP wrote:
Truth hurts.

The F-22 was designed to face high end threats.

Cruise missiles? Better look at the PK. And oh by the way the JASSM is on the dud list for the 3rd time. And.... has anyone ever seen a JASSM do nap-of-the earth? No? Shocking. It won't meet its price targets, and only depends on "stelath" at sub-sonic speed for survival. That is if the gold plated wonder hits its target. I'll take a Tomahawk Block IV thank you.

JDAM? Great weapon. Except for an S-300 or S-400 threat you will have to go deep because it is kinda short range. Guess what the only proven platform is that can take it that far into a high end threat. Ditto with SDB.

B-2. Yes to a point including the fact that it is broadband steatlh. Yet it is subsonic and will need some form of escort or pre-beatdown over a sustained campaign vs. a top threat. (As opposed to a one way nuke mission through wide open Soviet territory (design requirements and all that)

If there aren't F-22s around and if....IF the F-35 proves itself.... it will still have some work do to. If anyone else stands up a Chinese style of IADS over the next 30 years, (the proposed lifetime of the F-35) it won't be able to handle it.

Especially as it was never designed in the first place to handle that kind of threat. (F-22 and F-35 designed to work as a team.) USAF red force people looked at stealth and IADS a long time ago. Stealth by itself is not going to do it. Stealth (high quality stealth), supercruise and extreme altitude give a better chance. Something to think about when they start retiring the first F-22s in 20 years.

7/23/2009 4:45 PM CDT
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ELP wrote:
The current Griz Growler is slow, short legged and carries a jamming system that the Navy phoo-phooed when trying to get funding for the next gen jammer... "It's legacy" ...."hard to maintain"... "won't keep up with the threat".... all that about the 99 pods on the brand new diet coke of jammers, The Growler. ...
7/23/2009 4:50 PM CDT
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John wrote:
ELP named some I happened to miss.
7/23/2009 5:06 PM CDT
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Solomon wrote:
ELP, just restated the Air Force intelligence officers arguments. The point remains. First, when the F-22 was initially fielded, SAM supression/destruction was not on its list of things to do. Second, AESA radars found on even some of our legacy aircraft will be able to do electronic attack. Third, while he slams the Super Hornet, he does it a disservice, its not short legged or slow (what exactly are you comparing it to?) and lastly how is the F-22 suppose to roll up all of these anti air defenses? SDB's? If the Chinese are as competent as we're being led to believe then a glide bomb will be destroyed by their version of phallanx.
7/23/2009 5:16 PM CDT
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Solomon wrote:
How long are we going to do "what shoulda been" regarding procuring more F-22's? Isn't it past time for thinking on how to preserve, modernise and deploy the force be worth more effort than back handed swipes at the F-35. Also, if you ever wondered how these two planes ever got pitted against each other---I think this article illustrates that perfectly.
7/23/2009 5:23 PM CDT
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Solomon wrote:
TONGUE TIED! Should have been "Isn't it past time for thinking on how to preserve, modernize, and deploy the force RATHER than continue these back handed swipes at the F-35."

The rest is readable.
7/23/2009 5:53 PM CDT
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S-64 Skycrane wrote:
Has there been any discussion about the fate of the tooling for F-22? As well as who\where does that decision come from?

I also keep hearing that the F-22 line requires products from something like 46 states with some massive number of sub-contractors involved. Even if tooling is kept would it even be possible to restart production in a timely manner given the shear numbers of companies involved?

In regards to restarting assembly lines, it no longer is WWII where DoD can call up companies like Ford and GM and say build us a couple thousand B-24s or IBM and say make us some M1-carbines. It only worked back then because companies could manufacture a lot of the pieces in-house. It seems to me, that with something like a F-22, that any shut down of the line is equivalent to breaking tooling a la SR-71.

If a shooting match did occur the lag time just to get all the logistics together again would stifle any chance of having new units show up on a flight line in time to do battle.

Something to consider is that just short of 100,000 fighters were produced in the US in about a 5 year period in WWII. Does anyone actually think that even 1,000 F-22s could be produced in 5 years in all out manufacturing blitz?
7/23/2009 6:05 PM CDT
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