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A Defense Technology Blog
U.S. F-22s versus Chinese F-35s
A new Chinese fighter with stealth and supercruise is in development and may soon make its first flight with predictions of operational fielding by 2017-19, says PLA Air Force deputy chief, Gen. He Weirong.

The new Chinese fighter aircraft could come from Avic Defense’s Chengdu facility, which developed China’s latest J-10 fighter, or from Shenyang. He says the PLAAF will emphasize development of  reconnaissance/early warning; strike; strategic airlift, and air and missile defense. The J-10 began large-scale service in 2006.

While replicating the F-22 seems unlikely, aerospace officials with insight into the stealth fighter programs contend that building an F-35-like aircraft (with larger signature and less aerodynamic performance than the F-22) could be a threat to the U.S. if they are built in large numbers.

“Even 4th generation fighters, when pitted in large numbers against 187 F-22s, will eventually wear [the stealth fighters] down,” an aerospace industry official says. “They only carry eight air-to-air missiles. They don’t have to match Raptor capabilities if they build an advanced fighter in F-35 numbers.”

But many remain unconvinced about China’s timelines for an advanced design.

“But we’ve yet to see a real organic design [emerge] from China. So far they’ve leveraged Russian or Israeli technology. They don’t have a lot of radar engineering capability, nor experience in integrating a complete structure.”

Those are two big obstacles.

“You can paste on some [signature-lowering] capabilities but changing a very large target to a large target doesn’t buy you too much operational advantage,” the Air Force official says. “You need very small stealth signature numbers.”

The F-22 met a -40dBsm all-aspect requirement while the F-35 came in at -30dBsm with some gaps in coverage.

“You need a combination of the right shape, structural design, surface coatings, aerodynamic performance and flight control system designs,” the Air Force official says. “It’s not magic, but there’s still a lot of art in it.”

The idea that the J-10 will serve as a technological springboard is considered unlikely.

“I believe the Chinese have a difficult road if their design is tied to the J-10,” he says. “As you know, significantly reduced signature requires more then coatings.  The J-10 has many features which may produce the desired aerodynamic effects but would be a negative for signature reduction. I am sure they can somewhat reduce the signature with a few design tweaks and coatings but the operational relevance would be questionable.

“They can certainly refine their composite structure competency – Boeing’s been helping them with that through the commercial airliner programs
and basic [stealth] coatings are widely known and available,” the Air Force official says. “The milestone will be when we see more refined shaping.”
Tags: ar99ChinastealthF-22F-35
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Loader2088 wrote:
Not to worry. We'll just restart the F-22 production line if this threat comes to pass. Oh, wait.........
11/12/2009 4:25 PM CST
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Bobbymike wrote:
If the US is only to have 187 F-22's then I propose a stealthy BWB air to air missile carrier. A full sized X-48 could carry dozens (if not more than 100) AMRAMMs or longer range THAADs, NCADEs and Patriots.

During the Cold War, Nato could never match Warsaw Pact numbers in tanks and APC so devised force multipliers so one platform could kill multiple targets. One program called Assualt Breaker was meant to break up swarms of tanks, well now you may have to break up swarms of 4th generation fighters.
11/12/2009 4:27 PM CST
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And what did the Hon Robert Gates have to say about all of this?

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/nov/12/inside-the-ring-31336833/?page=5

He clearly thinks he has it covered . . .

Oh, wait, what about the Russian T-50 PAK-FA?

When this monster is disclosed next March, will he do the honorable thing and apologize, then resign?
11/12/2009 4:56 PM CST
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sferrin wrote:
"In other news,'Water is Wet'". Good thing we have brain trusts such as His Worship & Co. to tell us we don't need more F-22s. What would we do without their wisdom?
11/12/2009 7:30 PM CST
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sferrin wrote:
Of course they've already jacked up the supply chain so even if they were to buy more they'd be more expensive than they are at the moment. See what happened to the cost of the Burkes for example. But hey, we're getting that Healthcare travesty through come hell or high water.
11/12/2009 7:33 PM CST
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ELP wrote:
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Gates is pretty poorly advised on air power issues. His claims of x number of F-35s by year y, has nothing to back up the statement.
11/12/2009 8:09 PM CST
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RSF wrote:
Clearly the Chinese and the Russians are very happy with Mr. Gates and his next-war-itis nonsense. He is truly living in his own alternate reality.
11/12/2009 10:58 PM CST
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Bobbymike wrote:
With all the spending in Washington you would think "providing for the common defense" would get some attention. You could build 60 F-22s/year for about $10 billion/year. So for 1.27% of the stimulas you could guarantee air supremacy.

And it is not like the politicians are stopping after the stimulas as this does not include the CBO scoring the house healthcare plan at $3 trillion to 2019 or the trillion or so Cap and Trade will cost.

The most amazing thing is that politicians and the media still repeat the BS of "the F-22 $150 million each, wow we can't afford that."
11/13/2009 1:18 AM CST
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Martin wrote:
It will be nice some time from now to put Hon. Sec. Gateses comments on air power from the past and compare with reality. F-35 going downhill, Chinese and Russia not giving a damn about president Obama´s shows of good will. Seeing US as weaking power and striving hard to fill in empty slots. So evident, and still so hard to understand for some wishful thinkers. Horrific. Who runs US foreign policy, is it run by anybody at all and is there actually any US foreign policy? PAK-FA will be first reality check.
11/13/2009 3:37 AM CST
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Geogen wrote:
Screw it. Outsource F-35 final assembly to China and Partners can knock off 20% whatever off their respective Flyaways. Let them build the F135 for good measure - clip an extra couple million.

Contract w/PLAAF for their own license production and bring them into full JSF 'synergy' - would be a win-win?
11/13/2009 4:13 AM CST
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